And I was not planning on giving my opinion till you asked for it. Like I said I wasn't trying to say that anyone was right or wrong, you specifically asked me for my opinion. I knew I wasn't going to change anyone's mind nor was that my goal. I wanted to just get opinions.
John Davis
JoinedPosts by John Davis
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
Dubstepped:
I was responding to this portion of the original post:
Can anyone tell me if the Watchtower really did support this person in their court case and was it because they were worried they'd lose their charity status?
And I responded to the issue on the statement that the child custody packet is secret. I stated that it may not be distributed to everyone, but that it isn't secret that it is announced that there is this packet every year.
So instead of just thinking that I am the one that pushed it off the subject I was responding to the actual post. So why don't you just leave me alone.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
I think that breaking the law for any reason is not right. I know that we all break laws from time to time, we all speed or park where we aren't supposed to, but willfully breaking of a felony is wrong no matter what the reason behind it is.
I think in most modern countries the governments have set up laws that allow you to demand change in legal ways. They will allow you to file petitions, speak to legislatures or go to court. Those are all legal and valid ways to get changes to occur, and that people don't need to resort to illegal means if it is truly a violation of basic human rights.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
I will answer your question. I don't know why they would Delay, Appeal or obfuscate. I am not them. I have no idea why they would do those things. You may feel that it is not right, I may feel that it is not right. everyone on here may feel that it is not right. But it is legal.
So my question goes to you. Do you feel the same way about the Lewis in the Lewis case that she and her counsel was delaying or obfuscating the administration of justice by not complying with the judges order?
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
I am not sure if they had it back then. I just know that now there is always a letter stating that. It doesn't really even give legal advice since, at least in the US, family law is so complicated and every case is extremely unique. It just gave a list of cases that courts had ruled that were favorable in the respected country. It is meant so that the publisher can give it to their lawyer so that it will be easier for the lawyer to find the relevant cases. Actually thinking about it, I don't even know that it would be available in every country because obviously, every country is unique with regards to their laws.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
never a jw: most courts that have had this issue raised has determined that JWs are not agents of Watchtower nor is there a fiduciary relationship, so again it would be a question of who would be having to file the taxes with the state.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
Ok JP they do comply with the court orders after they have exhausted their rights to appeal. In the Lopez case they exhausted their appeals and are complying. Other than what I can read in the court records that is all I can speak of. I don't answer for watchtower. I can only speak for myself, if I was in a similar situation I would exhaust all of my rights and once I have done so I would then comply.
They will normally file things with the court under seal. You can't do that with a deposition, how can you appeal a decision about the right to depose someone if the deposition has already occurred. You can't unring that bell.
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49
Rookie exJW Question
by Phoebe ini was wondering if someone could help me with a question.. i am a rookie exjw, i only left the organization 4 months ago and everything i've discovered (un/arc/malawi/mexico etc) i've only discovered in the last few months so you can image it's been a huge shock to me especially after after 50 yrs!.
every time i think i've heard everything, something else pops up.. now i've come across a youtube video that mention tv evangelizer jimmy swaggart and the watchtower.
i remember jimmy swaggart from the time i lived in the u.s.a and i remember the scandals with him and prostitutes etc.
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John Davis
Child custody packet is not that secret. Every year there is a letter on the information board that talks about those that are going through a child custody case where the beliefs of JWs maybe raised should talk with the elders so they can request a copy.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
JP do you feel the same way in the Lewis v Bellows Falls case where Lewis and her counsel refused to turn over all discoverable evidence because they felt that the information was not relevant and encroached on her rights to privacy even though she was ordered to do so by the court. I am not saying that you do or you don't. But obviously Lewis felt that it was inappropriate to turn it over and refused to do so and asked the court for relief from it, the court denied the relief, but she could have appealed that decision.
Just because a court rules something doesn't make it right, that is why there are appeals and if you think it is a big enough deal then you refuse to turn over that information till you exhaust your appeals and you comply with the highest court's rulings.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
I agree with you that people have committed crimes in order to get people's attention but ultimately it was not the illegal actions that cause changes to happen. it is when people go through the proper means that is what causes the changes to happen.
You give the example of those that helped slaves, while that was illegal, those individuals were ready to go to prison for their actions. I think that they didn't try and find ways to justify it to avoid prison, they were willing to suffer the consequences of their illegal actions. And if people today who are doing illegal actions for their activism are ready to go to prison, then that is commendable. I am not willing to do that personally but if other people are that is their choice.
Also, you use whistleblowers as an example, for the most part in the private sector whistleblowers are not committing any crimes, in fact, that they are protected by the law, as long as they do it within the law. Government employees are usually barred from releasing classified or sensitive data, but there are legal means for even these people to report to people that can make needed changes. I just believe you have to do things within the law and how the law prescribes.